Rear Frame Bushing Removal Sucess.......

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Neveragain55
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Rear Frame Bushing Removal Sucess.......

Post by Neveragain55 »

So,

After driving most of you crazy with my constant suspension questions, I came up with a technique for removing the rear sub-frame bushings that really works well (for me anyways).

I want to share it with all of you.

I got a Makita sawzall (you can use any brand really), I also bought a $25.00 dollar air-hammer from Autozone, and a $6.00 dollar chisel from Sears, and of course PB Blaster.

Hell of a lot better than spending $400.00 dollars on the BMW tool that you'll probably only use once.

I cut the center of the bushings out with the sawzall, and then I slowly worked the outer edges of the steel insert in with the "pencil point" air hammer attachment.

Once the edges were worked in I could use the "flat" air hammer chisel to separate the inner sleeve from the sub-frame.

I won't lie.......it took a little over an hour (each side) for this part of the process but it gets the job done, and after most of the sleeve is separated, you can wiggle it out by clamping some vice grips on it.

Below are some pics of everything I used and you can see the new Powerflex yellow urethane bushings.

You can see from the pictures that I have some wheel well rust issues but that's ok because she's going to paint jail over the winter to take care of all those issues.


Thanks for all the help gang...........
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new bushings 1.jpg
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GripGreg
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Post by GripGreg »

Did you ask about the urethane bushings tendency to squeak?
I hope they don't but, if you hear some squeaking only when you move or enter a driveway,,there ya go.
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Post by ron »

Who is the manufacturer of the bushes?
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
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Neveragain55
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Post by Neveragain55 »

GripGreg: I've heard and seen all the conversations on polyurethane bushing squeaking and I have to tell you......I just don't get it.

I have polyurethane bushings in the front upper control arms, I've had polyurethane bushings in other cars and I've never had any issues with squeaking.

I seriously believe the people that have experienced problems either didn't use the copper grease (that you really should use with them), used a grease that quickly evaporated/dried up, or didn't use any grease at all.

I drilled a small hole in the the center of the front upper control arms where the bushing sits, tapped the hole, and screwed in grease Zerk fittings.

Every once in a blue moon I'll re-grease the poly's up front, and they've never squeaked and they also haven't taken on an oval shape that a lot of people warn about.

I've attached a picture so you can see what I did. In the first picture you can see the copper grease squeezing out the sides, and after that I used Marine grease because it's impervious to water.

Conclusion.........I swear by polyurethane bushings.

Ron: I got them from Powerflex

http://powerflexusa.com/

A lot of people say that Grunt's are better but I've never had any issues with any of Powerflex's products and I can't see how earth-shatteringly different polyurethane bushings would be from manufacturer to manufacturer in today's QC driven world.
Attachments
New Power Flex Bushings (L).jpg
New Power Flex Bushings (L).jpg (288.54 KiB) Viewed 15919 times
New Power Flex Bushings (R).jpg
New Power Flex Bushings (R).jpg (252.49 KiB) Viewed 15919 times
GripGreg
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Post by GripGreg »

AHA! You must be old skool?
I worked in my father's gas station in '65 and part of the oil change & lube included squirting the Zerk fittings.
The newer cars sadly don't utilize them.

You may be the dude that mentioned Zerk fittings a coupla years ago?
They really are the way to go when using urethane bushings. Pay attention, guys.
Or, maybe you have already payed attention? =D>
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Neveragain55
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Post by Neveragain55 »

I'm as old school as they get my friend, and yes, I did mention & post this before quite a while back.

Your right about today's cars not having the zerk grease fittings, but I modify almost everything I drive to mimic the more "common sense" ideas from yesteryear.
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Post by wattsmonkey »

I had the powerflex beam bushes fitted and never had a squeak from them, but found them a bit too harsh for me.

Have had them fitted to upper control arms for 30k and still great!

Rob
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Post by brickwhite »

I had rear poly subframe bushing, never again. The ride was just too hard after that. BMW put rubber there for a reason. And they last a good 10+ years.
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Neveragain55
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Post by Neveragain55 »

Sorry to hear your ride suffered from the poly Brickwhite, but I have to say I'm a little surprised that the ride suffered being that the suspension absorbs over 90% of whatever your going to roll over.

If you think about it, the aluminum sleeve in the center of the OEM rubber bushing sits flush with metal vertically so the rubber is only there for torsional give, not so much impact.

I have poly in other areas of the car and I don't have any complaints thus far, and I'm not anticipating any after this.

The nice thing about getting the old bushings out is that "if" the poly proves to be too harsh, I can easily slip them out and slip the OEM style ones back in there without all the heartache it took to get the original ones out.
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Post by Da_Hose »

My solution was to use OEM bushings, but fill the voids with 85 durometer, pourable polyurethane.

Now they have no lateral movement, but are compliant to vertical movement (road bumps). They worked out great! 8)

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Post by sansouci »

Related question--does the BMW specialized tool not work well or is it just a cost issue?
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Neveragain55
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Post by Neveragain55 »

Da Hose:

Excellent idea, and one that I also used on the rear tranny mount of my 94 Acura Legend.

The rear tranny mounts on those cars are infamous for premature failure and the back-end of the tranny violently shakes when the transmission shifts, so the fix is to do what you did with a stock, new mount. (fill in the voids with the durometer)

Sansouci:

For me..... the specialized BMW tool is crazy expensive, hard to find, and only has the one use of removing the rear sub-frame bushings or any bushing of the same size of which there aren't many.

I agonized for months over what was the best way to get my rear sub-frame bushings out without breaking the bank, and then feeling like a shmuck because now I have a tool that I'll probably never use again.

After reading many posts & blogs about people using a sawzall I looked into it, and decided that was the way to go for me.

I even went to a BMW restoration shop looking to possibly rent the factory tool and owner of the shop told me he doesn't have one and wouldn't pay for one himself..........and all he does is restore these old BMW's.

He's the guy that told me to just get a garden variety sawzall and cut the f@#$%r out...........so I did.

The guts came out easily, but the steel housing of the OEM bushings were a bit more temperamental so that's when I got the $25.00 air hammer from Autozone and they came out without too much fuss.

I'll use the sawzall and the air hammer on many projects in the future, how many times would I have used the bushing removal tool in the future once the job was done???

You do the math....
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Post by Da_Hose »

If I had a shop, I would lift the car, grind off the rubber at the flange part of the bushing, weld on two 3/4" nuts, slide a 1/2' bar through and use a slide hammer to bang out the bushing.

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Neveragain55
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Post by Neveragain55 »

And I know that - that would work like a charm.

I've always said that if you ask a hundred mechanics how to : "fill in the blank" you will most likely get a hundred different "similar" answers.

There's nothing wrong with that as long as the job gets done.

I'm very grateful for everybody's help in here, and I respect everybody's individuality & technique when it comes to working on cars.

I seriously doubt if I'll ever again in life have to change another set of E24 rear sub-frame bushings, but if I do, I know just what to use.
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Post by Da_Hose »

Dude .... I hope you never have to replace the rear control arm bushings. HOLY COW!

That was a nightmare job that took a 60 ton press, sheared a press tool, and made the press jump a couple inches off the ground along with making a very kaboom kind of noise. :shock:

People in the welding shop were ducking in case of shrapnel. :lol:

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Neveragain55
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Post by Neveragain55 »

I've read & seen dozens of horror stories about the rear control arm bushings, and to be honest with you, it's the main reason I avoided them.

That and the fact that even though the car has a lot of miles there's very little to no axial play in the control arms at all.

I figured that replacing all of the parts I did will tighten everything up quite nicely, and make the rear behave with more authority when the road gets curvy.

I don't drive the car like it's a Formula 1 car, and I don't race it but I knew the rear could use some sprucing up.

Honestly if those particular bushings ever failed or got to the point where I was forced to change them (while I still own the car), I think I'd just source an extra set of rear control arms that already have the bushings removed regardless of the price.

Whatever I would pay extra in terms of getting control arms without those damn bushings in there would more than make up for the headache of trying to get them out myself. =D> =D> =D>
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Post by tschultz »

What all did you have to remove to drop the edge of the subframe that far?

Just the single bolt/not on that side??
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Neveragain55
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Post by Neveragain55 »

That single bolt and the shock.

If you don't remove or at the very least un-bolt the shock from the top mount, the sub frame won't come down enough on its own because the shock (in place) keeps the tension.

Lift the two flaps in the carpet just under the back seat, unscrew the two Phillips head screws that hold the seat down, lift the seats up & out of the way, drown the bolt (that sits in a recessed pocket) with PB Blaster, and go to lunch.

Come back from lunch, loosen the nut to that bolt underneath the car, and unscrew it until its flush with the bolt, then take a short handle sledge hammer and whack the Hell out of it until it moves up.

Undo the top mount holding the shock in place, Jack up the car at the Jack point along the lower rail, and the sub frame will fall/lower enough to clear the way to put in the two piece urethane bushings or whatever bushings you want.

The hard part is getting the old bushings out before you lift the car off of the sub frame.....but not hard if you use what I used.
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Post by Brucey »

Note of caution; do be sure that you don't lower the subframe so far that you tug the brake lines hard- this could easily damage them.

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Neveragain55
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Post by Neveragain55 »

Very good point Brucey,

Please forgive me for not mentioning it, but the only reason why I forgot to mention it is because I took all the brake hardware apart because I'm also rebuilding the brakes.

I took all the old brake hoses off and I'm replacing them with red, steel braided brake hoses.

I blasted the brake calipers and painted them Porsche red with ceramic paint and I blasted the brackets and painted them black.

I got drilled rotors to replace the rusted out, stock rotors as well.

I'll post pictures of everything when it's done.
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Re: Rear Frame Bushing Removal Sucess.......

Post by Boggie »

I am considering the full POWERFLEX set of bushes front and rear but after reading this thread I might end up paying for someone to fit them. Anyone know a tame Powerflex stockist/installer in the UK please?
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Re: Rear Frame Bushing Removal Sucess.......

Post by wattsmonkey »

Boggie wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:20 pm I am considering the full POWERFLEX set of bushes front and rear but after reading this thread I might end up paying for someone to fit them. Anyone know a tame Powerflex stockist/installer in the UK please?
They tighten up the rear end, for sure, but I found the trade off in ride quality a bit too much of a compromise. I've got the bush removal tool and a set of Powerflex bushes that weren't on the car for very long in my possession!

Filling the voids in oe bushes might be the way to go
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Re: Rear Frame Bushing Removal Sucess.......

Post by Boggie »

Interesting. Were they the yellow or black Powerflex?
I want to sharpen up the handling by replacing the suspension with new Bilsteins and bushes all round but I do not want to spoil the feel of the car. Is there a more compliant alternative compromise between OEM and Powerflex?

Cheers,
Ian
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Re: Rear Frame Bushing Removal Sucess.......

Post by wattsmonkey »

Yellow. It's worth comparing new oe bushes with old and possibly knackered ones. I'm very happy with mine.
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Re: Rear Frame Bushing Removal Sucess.......

Post by wattsmonkey »

Mind you, I was always happy with poweflex UCA bushes on the front of the burgundy 635, even though they must have had an adverse effect on the geometry (oe bushes have mounting bolt off centre; power flex bang in the middle)
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