1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

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Kurtamine_
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:55 pm
Location: FL

1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Greetings from Florida!!

For starters I will say that I was never good at virtually documenting my builds and progress. I ask for your patience as my 8-month new (to me) purchase has inspired me to be engaged with my fellow shark tamers!

The vessel of the matter is an Arctic Blau 1981 633 CSI. I wont bore you guys with the details of how I came across it and I will just get into the details of the refresh and repairs that this beast will undergo. The vessel is rather rusty and I completely understand that most people would junk the car or part it out. I saw potential in the chassis despite the rust and I began fixing some of the rust already.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_syjZoFvVozjCrx_RU
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_syi2-cqpKdOpHHpmE

Besides the rust the chassis needed a major suspension and brake refresh. The rear brake lines were clogged (probably with rust), the front dampeners were leaking fluid, the ball joints/tie rods were old and cracking, the bushings in the front control arms were toast, the rear subframe bushings with the RTABS were deceased, and much more to add.

My first task to tackle was the rear brakes. I changed out the brake lines with braided Condor Speed Shop brake lines, which made a tremendous difference. I also replaced the old fluid with DOT 4 brake fluid. After doing that, I still was not quite satisfied with the braking still. So, I decided to swap the rear calipers out with the E32 calipers and rotors.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_syjh6V4y8650BZrvv
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_syj1ekbtRgIS1yOAO
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_syj9i2oCJXhoswQxY
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_syjcqlo0FOddJQfpG
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_sykJ2ZNd6k32eDNJH

As we all know E12 based suspension components do not support the e32 rear calipers and rotors. I decided to do the subframe update along with new RTABs, subframe bushings, and updated diff. This was to just satisfy the rear, for the front I decided to get new lower control arms with new bushings and ball joints, and I also found a set of used Bilstiens and H&R lowering springs from an E28. Again as most of you know, the E28 based cars never matched the E12 so I had to do some minor adjustments to make the front strut tube inserts work.

1.)I had to cut and lengthen the E12/E24 strut tubes in order for the bilsteins to thread in.
2.)The front top hat strut mounts needed a new bearing in order to fit the smaller diameter shaft size of the the E28 bilsteins, and so I went through boca bearings to get a proper sized bearing and pressed it in. (FOR REFERENCE: E28 top hat mount bolt pattern does not match the E12 based chassis)

Seperate from the suspension work that I have done so far. I have also did minor motor work such as replacing the intake boot that goes to the AFM. Which was causing a rather annoying idle surge. I also was having minor overheating problems with the motor too. So I replaced the water pump and upgraded to an electric fan and a small diameter water pump pulley. I will probably say that the smaller water pump pulley was probably the coolest modification I have done on this car to date haha.

The linked photos below are a mix of my old 1984 Alpine White E30 and my '99 mazda miata. As well as other photos of my E24.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_sykfo1HGZY1ajktY4
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_sykGcLjbn90yBBoSb
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https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_syivTY572Bdn-BSca
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_syi--P1_1PO0maqJZ
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_syjAH3U1TQQfIsWVY
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Kurtamine_
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

For those of you who are interested in the mod done to the front strut housings for the late model bilsteins heres a picture.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_szF86aRAkOal-0CrS

After fighting the drive shaft for about 2 hours I finally got rear subframe in and torqued down. I love the rear brake fitment of the e32 calipers. I have not driven it yet either but I love how different the bilsteins and the H&R springs feel. The rear is so much stiffer now, and the ride height is perfect!
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_szGU4PwPARBDEKztH
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_szGSrtewvUsqd7QDp
While I was getting ready for the maiden voyage by bleeding the new brakes. I ended up bursting the rusty brake line that goes from the master cylinder to the brass T-fitting ](*,)
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AncWeV69IP_szGHG3rMPIu_3jtsS

So now I am about to order a line from FCP Euro and then hopefully my maiden voyage can resume with the new suspension and bushings.
I pray I get it on the road solidly by the time Daytona 24hrs comes around.
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by GRNSHRK »

Well, that's quite some ambitious work you've taken on there =D>

Looks like you'll be dealing with some rust issues as well :cry:

Depending on the file size of your photos, you should try to show them instead of just the links, bit of a PITA :-k

Welcome and keep us posted, ready to hear about your maiden voyage \:D/
:mrgreen:
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Kurtamine_
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Since my brake line decided to give out. I was able to drop the subframe a tad so that I have about an fist worth of space to unscrew the line from the chassis and disconnect the line from the brass T #-o

I was able to order a 10 foot straight brake line from fcp euro, and a new brass T fitting from ECS tuning. Since I have been having issues with my brake system I decided to continue the brake refresh by buying new Hawk pads for the front calipers, braided SS lines for the front calipers, and new vented front rotors. In the midst of all this I will be stripping the calipers of the aweful red spray paint that someone took upon themselves to do.

I worked a deal out at my local hydraulic shop to have them bend the 10 foot brake line. I have a bender and I would do it myself but I dont want that sort of headache especially since I am not a professional bender.
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My old E30 and Old Miata
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Kurtamine_
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

GRNSHRK wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:50 pm Well, that's quite some ambitious work you've taken on there =D>

Looks like you'll be dealing with some rust issues as well :cry:

Depending on the file size of your photos, you should try to show them instead of just the links, bit of a PITA :-k

Welcome and keep us posted, ready to hear about your maiden voyage \:D/
Thanks GRNSHRK! I appreciate the kind words.

Yes, unfortunately it is a rather rusty chassis, but I have every intention of repairing it all. I tried to do that with my old E30 but the rust was so bad even in all the structural areas that I couldnt deal with that anymore.

I plan to eventually take it to the track for light track days.

Also thanks for the tip about uploading he pictures rather then photo links!
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Finally!!!!

I was able to drive the car after replacing the trunk line for the rear brakes and brass fitting. I ended up using Easy-Bend brake line as the replacement. Rest assure, FCP EURO did give me a great deal on a replacement 10ft brake line, but it would of been more tragic to bend that into place. I also replaced the front brake lines with braided SS and put in EBC brake pads 8)

I have to say all of this work was completely worth it. The brakes have never felt so amazing on this car since I have had it. Suspension wise, the car feels 1000x better, as expected since the old struts were blown.

Considering how I put in a 2.93 diff in I will say that it takes an incredible amount of time to get up to speed, as I expected. I will be swapping that out with a 3.25 LSD in the future. Also, my slim electric mishimoto fan seemed to do extremely well controlling the temps at the long red lights. I will be testing that out more thoroughly in the day time, but as of now I am please with how the car is.

Now I am a tiny bit closer to taking it to the track \:D/
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Kurtamine_
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Finally got to drive the car for a good amount of time today. Handled wonderfully.

The brakes and new suspension components really made the car feel solid. \:D/ Image
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However I did notice that my temperature gauge was rising more then what it normally did so I stopped and used my heat gun only to find out that the temp was about 197F. Can anyone confirm if this is truely bad for my 81' b32??

Also where would be the most accurate spot to check the temperature with a heat gun? I know this is kind of a vague question but I really want to test my water temp sensors to see how accurate they are. When I first drove the car it usually stayed within the first 3 tick marks.
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Shipper 01 »

197F is around 92c, so it is getting up there although my race m30b35 gets hotter and my wife's X5 runs on the highway at 95c plus on really hot days.

I've put the heat gun on my extractors (of the race car) and had 450c so it can get hot.

Check your radiator and water pump. Otherwise, when not at speed but idling, does hit heat up way too much?
Kurtamine_
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Shipper 01 wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:34 am 197F is around 92c, so it is getting up there although my race m30b35 gets hotter and my wife's X5 runs on the highway at 95c plus on really hot days.

I've put the heat gun on my extractors (of the race car) and had 450c so it can get hot.

Check your radiator and water pump. Otherwise, when not at speed but idling, does hit heat up way too much?
Interesting. Thanks for the info! I did replace the water pump about 3 months ago with new T-stat. It is only at idle is when it heats up too much. While driving the temperature reduces significantly. Might be the Head gasket?

Also I just found out that the temperature sensor on the radiator broke at the electrical connector. Maybe this has something to do with it too?
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by hornhospital »

Running hot at idle/traffic light stop/stop-and-go traffic is a sign the fan clutch is failing.
Ken Kanne
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Shipper 01 »

Agree with the above. Could also be a poorly working fan. Without a good strong fan these engines overheat quickly. The E30 fan is better than the fan on an early e12 based 6'er so you can imagine how important it is to get the fan right! My E3 racer scrapped its original fan for an electric fan from an E30 325is. Works brilliantly!
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Shipper 01 wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:33 am Agree with the above. Could also be a poorly working fan. Without a good strong fan these engines overheat quickly. The E30 fan is better than the fan on an early e12 based 6'er so you can imagine how important it is to get the fan right! My E3 racer scrapped its original fan for an electric fan from an E30 325is. Works brilliantly!
hornhospital wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:30 am Running hot at idle/traffic light stop/stop-and-go traffic is a sign the fan clutch is failing.
Thanks for the input guys!

I ordered a 16" slim electric fan from Mishimoto. I will be installing this weekend and giving it a test run to see how it will fare. I will keep you guys informed 8)
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

The 16" fan did the trick. I no longer have any heating issues, and it runs like a champ. 8)

I added some copper hardware to the headers to help with high temperatures from the headers. I plan to get them coated but for now they are solid and sound amazing!

Safe to say that I am ready for the florida summer....I hope
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Just hit "summer" here in FL this weekend and noticed that I had a small pin hole leak coming from the coolant housing where it met the head. Bought a gasket, sanded my coolant temp copper connectors, and sanded my grounds. My motor now operates almost too well at idle. Temp needle pretty much stays below the second tick mark. It is my understanding that the location just beneath the second mark is normal. 8)

Also had to time to wet sand my coolant cap. Maybe I have a little too much time on my hands.

While doing a test run I noticed a knocking noise coming from the rear end. I really didnt see anything out of the ordinary in the rear. Would anyone have any speculation on what it might be? Seems to happen every time the clutch starts to grab.
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Here is the coolant cap
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by GRNSHRK »

Hmm, rear end clunking :-k

Couple of thoughts, based on your comment that you only hear it when the clutch engages the driveline :-?

I would check the condition of the center bearing and universal joints in the driveshaft for play or other issues [-(

I would also inspect the diff mount, known to crack, check out the attached photo from my '80 :-&

And nice polish job on the coolant tank cap #-o
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:mrgreen:
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1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
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Kurtamine_
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

GRNSHRK wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:25 pm Hmm, rear end clunking :-k

Couple of thoughts, based on your comment that you only hear it when the clutch engages the driveline :-?

I would check the condition of the center bearing and universal joints in the driveshaft for play or other issues [-(

I would also inspect the diff mount, known to crack, check out the attached photo from my '80 :-&

And nice polish job on the coolant tank cap #-o
Thanks for the input GRNSHRK,

I inspected the rear end the other night and I didnt seem to find anything that was out of place. The only places I did not check was the CSB or the guibo/ drive shaft. I will be taking a look at that tomorrow.

As for the rear diff mount on the frame mine is starting to crack and I noticed that it had this issue before. I planned on fixing that in the near future.
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

6 month update!

Small follow up to my last comment. My basket case of an e12 based chassis was a little rough around the edges in terms of the rear diff mount. The two rear bolt holes of the diff mount were rusted, cracked and pretty much falling out of place.

Easy fix for this problem. Weld the broken pieces back into place. I also came up with my own diff mount in the process. A little cad design, e12 control arm bushings, and my fabricator did a splendid job.

In the mean time, I got some wheels to sway out the e39 wheels, and I replaced my return clutch spring. My adjust still seems to be off though. Can anyone provide me some sort of direction or trick to getting the clutch pedal height solid and a non mushy clutch?
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

More Pictures
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by tschultz »

Wow great work on this!!

How bad is the rust on this one?
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

tschultz wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:28 pm Wow great work on this!!

How bad is the rust on this one?
It has moderate rust. Its weird because majority of the passenger side has practically no rust besides a small hole or two in the floorboard, but the driver side is pretty bad (all cosmetic now). A full walk around the car and you see small spots of rusts in random spots as well as the typical E24 chassis spots.

Hopefully next year I replace the carpet and fix most of the rust at the same time.
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Hey Gang!

Its been a long time since I gave an update.

At the beginning of the year I started noticing a severe over-heating issue with the car. I tried every fix I could think of to remediate the heating issue. As time went on the over heating started occurring at idle and while driving. At that point I knew the head gasket was on its way out. ](*,)

The following day after I would notice coolant backing out of the coolant reservoir profusely. After that I made the order and I bought all of the necessary parts and gaskets for replacing the head.

I tore everything down do the short block in one day. I had my head refreshed with +1mm larger valves, a slightly larger cam, and the head milled from WOT-TECH in Ft lauderdale.

While I had waited to get the head refurbished, I took the opportunity to get the E21 runners. I know it is a rather pointless modification but I wanted to try it out to see how the new motor would respond to the slightly increases diameters, and shorter stack.
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From the pictures you can see the carbon build up on the pistons. The #6 cylinder had the lesser amount of build up but I only suspected that was a result of the HG leak.
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The most painstaking part of all of this was cleaning out the carbon. Took a lot of oil and diesel fuel.
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Recently, I put everything back together and went for my first start. Took awhile to understand the shenanigans of finding the "Ball" in the open hole of the transmission bell housing. Truth be told, I know I still did not get the timing correct for this car. Does anyone have any good suggestions or tricks to getting the timing right on these early L-jet cars? I read the first fives article and it helped a ton, just not enough for stupid me haha :mrgreen:
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Upon first start my oil pressure was seeing roughly over 30 psi, which is weird considering that normally for a cold start I would see 80-90ish psi. It is also hard to get this motor to idle too (assuming ignition timing). I did also notice how dirty the new coolant was too. It had bits of oil in it. I flushed the coolant system 3 times to get the old oil out of the coolant system (my fault for accidentally spilling oil into the coolant jackets of the block when doing the job).

I did a compression test on all the cylinders and they all got 120 psi. I read that 150-170 is considered good for these engines. Is this compression bad?

Also, can anyone advise me if I did the head gasket job incorrect? Me seeing oil in the coolant makes me thing that the gasket did not properly seal. I did pressurize the coolant system with a test pump and it did hold pressure.
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Pasocb »

Hi Kurtamine,

A couple thoughts;

First Fives is a great source of information for our early cars...

If you are having difficulty setting the ignition timing, it would be a good idea to partially disassemble the distributor and confirm that the mechanical advance system is in good condition. Probably be a good time to clean and lube. It may help to mark the steel "ball" with a paint pen to make it easier to see. I find that having an assistant is very helpful when it comes to setting the ignition timing.

The lower oil pressure that you are experiencing is a little concerning. The the oil pressure relief valve in our engines tend to stick fully open as varnishes build up. It would be good to monitor your oil pressure closely to make sure that it doesn't drop too low at idle when hot (30 psi is not a problem).

Low compression numbers across all cylinders could be cause by your cam timing being off by a tooth - probably be a good idea to double check.
I am not sure what cam you installed, but if it has a lot of overlap that could also contribute to low static compression readings.

Also concerning is the persistent oil in your coolant. Hopefully you are able to get this to eventually clear up. The cooling system has lots of nooks and crannies in it including the heater core. Make sure that you cycle the heater during your flushing process.

When installing a head gasket it is important to keep in mind that both the head and block surfaces need to be perfectly clean with no oil or other residue before bolting the head in place (not even finger prints). Use lots of brake clean and rags after surfacing and scraping. This is difficult to do on an engine still installed in the car to make sure that nothing lands on your pristine new surfaces.

cb
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Re: 1981 633 CSI Revival and Refresh

Post by Kurtamine_ »

Long time no update!

Ive been long chasing these issues with my car since I put it all back together and attempted to first start it. I have a ton of updates and I have neglected to record everything on here as I feel that some of what I do could potentially help L-jet owners ](*,)

Timing and setting the distributor on this car proved to be difficult for me for a number of reasons besides the fact that im used to the M20 rather the m30 and an old school distributor (not the bolt in place M20 kind). I eventually set the distributor correctly and was able to turn the car on with the motor sounding healthy.

Setting the distributor:
-turned the motor over so that cylinder 1 is at TDC
-place distributor in motor with the number 1 cylinder facing towards the radiator.
-buttoned the motor up, and started cranking.
-made minor adjustments to the distributor until it fires up (no vaccuum hoses connected to the distributor).

The first go around after it started it would barely run and it wouldnt idle. Therefore I found it hard to set the distributor to that 22* BTDC by looking for the ball in the Tranny Hole at 2500 rpm (WHAT A PITA) :-({|=
note: the 2500rpm is what I gathered from other various parts of the interwebs as the sticker under my hood telling me that info is missing :roll:

So I went through the process of diagnosing everything.

Started with a compression test.

Tested compression on all cylinders and average 170psi. :-"

I then reset the distributor at 2600RPM and connected the vacuum hoses (mechanical advancement), and the motor barely ran but the fuel mixture was very rich. Motor had a hard time rising in RPM, but I assumed that was due to the fuel mixture being too rich. With that being said I then leaned the fuel mixture by twisting the distributor in the CCW direction slightly until I reached a good medium. ](*,)

I then started testing my ignition system components.

Starting with the ignition wires. (Resistance Test) - Turns out that my (probably original equipment) wires were faulty
Tested the ignition coil (Resistance Test) - All my resistance readings across all terminals were still in range of what was acceptable.
Check the plugs (Visual Test) - All my spark plugs were fouled out #-o
Checked the cap and rotor (Visual Test) - Both looked to have some blemishes on the electrical contacts. Not sure if they are considered faulty

Stupid me for reusing old parts rather than replacing them when I did the HG.

Resultantly, I bought new spark plug wires, spark plugs, rotor, and cap.

Replacing those simple parts of the ignition system probably needed to be done awhile ago, but I noticed a huge difference in the responsiveness in the engine.
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After all that I then decided to reach out to my resources here on the forums. Big "thank you" to members GRNSHRK and Pascob. =D>
They both have provided me with much needed and helpful information for diagnosing my L-jet car as I suspected that I am missing a key component of getting my car to run correctly with no hiccups.

After reading all the information that I had found I decided to redo my intake manifold runners and injector o-rings. I was able to replace my O-rings with part number ELR-893889. I also replace the throttle body gasket and the cold start valve o-ring too.
note: when assembling the intake manifold/runners it is important to take your time and make sure each runner seats to the manifolds firmly.

Turns out that re-adjusting the manifold and the o-rings was the largest improvement of getting my motor to run like a top. :mrgreen:
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As for my oil pressure, I noticed that at the beginning of this journey of the HG replacement my oil pressure was lower then what I once recorded. I came to a few conclusions with this:

- I had a huge air bubble in my oil pressure system (probably due to having the head off so long and the pump loosing its prime)
- Priming the motor is not as easy as I had imagined.
- pouring a quart of oil in the front timing cover area is necessary when priming the motor/pump.
- Somehow my electronic oil pressure sending unit is faulty and I check my system with a mechanical gauge that confirmed my motor is healthy. :lol:


TLDR:

L-Jet Cars are super sensitive to the smallest of vacuum leaks.
Making sure that your original equipment is still within operating range.
Mechanical oil pressure gauges are a great fail safe and tool.

Useful Links:

https://www.hpsimotorsports.com/l-jetro ... v6-milano-
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